[music playing] male speaker : whoa,[inaudible] [laughter] tony sales: my name'stony sales. i'm 37 years of age. it's been said that i'm one ofbritain's biggest fraudsters. in my time as a fraudster, iaccumulated between 10 to 30 million pounds. i spent six years of my lifeon the run, of which at the
end i served a prisonsentence. i've now set up a company calledrid fraud ltd., which combats the sort of frauds thati used to do to help this growing epidemic that'shappening throughout the uk. i could sell riceto the chinese. committing fraud was aseasy as that for me. the london fraud network ishuge, starting with young fraudsters-- male speaker: the policecouldn't give two flying pigs
about fraud. i've only had one encounter, andi managed to fraud that. tony sales: --to major organizedcriminal gangs stealing multi-millionpounds through elaborate frauds and scams. male speaker: people don'twant to appear silly. that's why they don'task questions. male speaker: all your name hasto do is just pop up on one of our computers,and it's done.
that's you. male speaker: moneymeans nothing. buy now, pay never. tony sales: i'd put thistelephone number down for a number for my nan to contactfrom the school. so if i decided to hop the wagor play truant, she could ring this number, and i would answerthe phone and say, "hello, halstow school, can ihelp you?" i was 11, 12 when i was doing that.
we'd go to every single one ofthose flats that were up in there and get peopleto sign our sponsorship form for a pound. they'd phone a number, andthey'd say, "hello, is the sponsorship form real?" andagain, we'd say, "yes, the sponsorship form's real. it's from halstow school." but when your belly's hungry,and you need to eat, and you want to buy yourself a nice pairof trainers that all the
other kids have got on,they're the only things you can do. and that's how youlearn the trade. young cee: this isn'treally the life. you're not making asmuch money as you possibly can, legally. as soon as you apply for a job,you have to wait forever. and while waiting, you're onthe streets, doing nothing. if you're not doing nothing,then you're doing the daily
grind, which is shottinga little weed. calley: you have to commit theseoffenses in order to eat your food for the day. obviously, there are risksinvolved in doing them things. i've been shot at, and someonetried to stab me. in my opinion, violenceain't the answer. i would prefer to dothe fraud scams. alias: i'm just going to tryand find a nice pair of trainers for myself.
yeah, these are bad, innit? you can get card detailsfrom hotels. you can get them from secretfraternities online. getting hold of it is easy. first got into it when i was ateenager in secondary school-- 16, i would say. ebay scam. and i got some wrestlingfigures. i mean, people would just ringme up and say, mate, can you
order me some indian,please, or a pizza? i'm fucking starving. i've done stuff for people, andthey haven't looked after me in return. with that being done, i knoweverything about them. i'll just go and take a creditcard out in their name. i've even done it to a girl. she deleted me off of facebookand i put her arse into debt for doing that.
[laughs] that's what happens when youdelete me off facebook. top websites to completelyannihilate if you're low on money, need clothes,want food. at number two is harrods. the security in harrods isactually a pile of poo. i remember me and my slovenianboys, we raped it every single day for a month. they just went back toslovenia with all
state of the art stuff. and out there, theywere getting top dollar for it, as well. at number one is tesco,it's my favorite. this is what we help theneighborhood out with. for the single mums that don'thave as much money as they would like to, they give us abell and we just order them shopping to their house. the security on tesco'sis rubbish.
but i'm happy that it's rubbish,because it's helped a lot of people. so i bought myself shitloadsof dvds because i want to start a little pirateindustry. give the little youngerssomething to do. this is just pleasurable. warhammers, i love this stuff. limited edition warhammers. wicked.
i mean, this is justthis week alone. welcome to the life of fraud. tony sales: london's full anddiverse of all different types of frauds going oncontinuously. i think the most bizarre one iever heard of and know about is the nigerian 419 scam of whatthey call black money. the black money scam justbasically cons people into believing that there'sa pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
mr. gold: my name is mr. gold,and i'm here to talk to you about what we call wash wash. and basically, what i want toshow you now is how we can turn $300 into maybe $300,000. sometimes we've targetedunderworld people because, number one, they're the onlypeople who will have a substantial amount of moneysitting down at home, unaccounted for. yes, we have taken moneyfrom the ira.
we're not intimidatedby them at all. maybe i'll say i'm the assistantto bin laden. i have exclusive accessto his hoard of money. the job now is to move the moneyfrom where it is to the west, where it can bedealt with properly. but then when i tell them that,unfortunately, the money has come defaced. but it's not an issue, becausethis is how security services normally move the money.
and there are chemicalsavailable in order to wash the money. the idea now is for him to buyenough chemical so that we can do his wash by theend of the week. we can never tell him whatthe secret chemical is. it's not really expensive, butwe will tell him it's very, very expensive. it's only available togovernments, and whatnot. magic.
so you give them this. so, there you go, mr. client. go down the road, go buyyourself mcdonald's. by the time they come back,the chest will be gone, everything will be gone,everything will be clean. do people actually believe it? yes they do. they believe it. to be honest with you, i couldnot be in the room because i
would laugh. i've got a nice house, yeah, andthe cars, the women, the whole shebang. and it's a lifestyle thathas been bought with this kind of business. cut. tony sales: key still works. let's have a look. this is just bank statements,a couple of wage slips,
couples of passports. absolutely everythingin there. mortgage offers. a lot of this stuff would havebeen given to people at a proper company todisperse of it. you know? and maybe the guy who drovethe van or works in the company, who don't get thewages that he should be getting for the job that he'sdoing, thinks, well, i can
have a little tickle, here. and he sells it to the wrongperson who then would try and get hold of someone like me. this is a mortgage applicationin here. we got a copy of someone'spassport. we got a copy of someone'sp60, so now we've got a national insurance number. we've got barclay's bankstatements with the account number, sort code, everythingelse on it.
this is how easy it is, yeah? you make a utility bill. you can make a nationalinsurance card, because you got the national insurancenumber. all these things are really easyto make once you've got the right equipment. so you go into the bank, withall the stuff that you've made up now, and you just draw themoney out over the counter. once you knew how to do allthis stuff, we was instant
millionaires. we could have whatever wewanted, whenever we wanted it. a4 pieces of paper are cashif you know how to make them into money. the final piece ofthe jigsaw is id. the best possible formof id you can get is a british passport. people die on boats and stufffor this passport. and they climb over mountains,and they go everywhere to try
and get this passportright here. with this id, people willgive you anything. they don't even question it. and they just look at it. they'll give you whatever youwant, there and then. because as far as they're concerned, it's a real passport. if you make it goodenough, no one's going to question nothing.
so that's the most importantpart, is the photo id. so that bit's done now. so now we just need to make therest of the utility bills and the bank statement. and that's it. we're going to make a completebill with numbers on the back. everything it's meant tohave, it's gonna have. so when people look at it, theyturn it over, it's going to have all the numbers there.
everything's in place. even the direct debit cardslip is perfect to how it should be. there is no differencewhatsoever. it's absolutely perfect. people would say it's hardwork, but it's not. it's an easy thing to do. whereas most people walk pastthe shop, and they don't see anything, we're walking pastthe shop and thinking, oh,
let's have a little lookin there and just see what we can do. simmer: she's green. [inaudible] tony sales: look howyoung that girl is. what, she's 20. what's she going to know? there's so much [inaudible] coming to play.
do you do finance? my wife said you do, yeah? female speaker: it takesabout 15, 20 minutes to do on the system. i just need some form ofidentification, preferably like a debit card. tony sales: yeah, now thesepeople are not trained in any type of financial backgroundat all. you can go to them and say, i'dlike to open a store card
today in your store, please. and they'll say,ok, thank you. could you fill thisform out, sir? the house of fraserstore card. do you do a house offraser store card? you do, yeah? and do i have to haveany id with me? female speaker: we doneed a form of id, like a credit card.
tony sales : all right,i've got that, yeah. yeah, that's fine. that's fine, yeah? all right. thank you very much! simmer: they want you to takeit more than they think you want to take it. so just let themsell it to you. tony sales : hello.
i was just making someinquiries, really. i see you do up to three years'interest-free credit. female speaker: yes. tony sales : i'm looking toget my wife a 10 year anniversary present. yeah, that looks all right. female speaker: that's anice-looking watch, isn't it? tony sales : yeah. female speaker: maritalstatus?
you're married, yeah? 10 years, was it? tony sales : 10 years, yeah. female speaker: sameas me, this year. tony sales : oh yeah? well you don't look old enoughto be married 10 years. female speaker: 10years, july. tony sales : wow. female speaker: do youhave any proof of
residence at all with you? driving license orutility bill? tony sales : i've gota utility bill. yeah. i've left one bit in the car. here you go. thanks. they haven't got a clue whatthey're looking at, what id they're looking at, howto check to see if the
id is real or not. they don't have a clue. and that person could issue youup to 5,000 pound credit on the spot, there and then. male speaker: right, you havesix autographs in total, sir. signature there. signature and dateson that one. and there's three copiesof it, basically. one for me, one for [inaudible],and one for us.
tony sales : ok, sir. i'll go and get the card. i've got to do a couple littlebits just down there, yeah. male speaker: we'll have thewatch ready, we'll have all this done, all thepaperwork sorted. tony sales : thank you, sir. thank you very much. see you later, bye bye. on one day, it could be thatthere might be 20 of us out.
and that girl does 20applications in one day. that poor girl is goingto get in trouble. simmer: before i met tony,i used to do robberies. i was robbing doorstepcollection people. i was getting in somuch trouble. prison, police stations,[inaudible]. it just got progressivelyworse. it was wearing a bit thin. i could see a long prisonsentence coming out of
something like that. i just met hott. and he just showed me adifferent way where i wasn't getting into trouble so much. he just brought me in likeit was just an old family sort of thing. it was just an easyway of life. i didn't worry about nothing. i didn't have to worryabout money.
nice clothes, whateveri wanted. growing up, i never used tohave nothing like that. when i stopped robbing andstarted doing the fraud, it was taking the face away fromthe crime, if you like. wasn't hurting nobodyindirectly. it's luck of the draw. because what you do is you'repicking people. you don't know the peopleyou're picking. you might have a million people,and all you're doing
is just picking the best namethat suits yourself. it's already happenedto my mother. she was the victim ofidentification fraud, as well. not saying that come from noneof us, because it never come from none of us. but she was. my family didn't want meto go the way i did. but you take your own pathin life, don't you? tony sales: like in afootball team, the
striker scores the goal. fraud works in exactly the sameway where at the end, sometimes you build everythingup, and you just need the last part of the jigsaw puzzleto put it together. 9 times out of 10, that'llbe someone like kelly. men are men. they will look at a gorgeousyoung girl, and they go weak at the knees. i can go in and corrupt thegirls behind the counter.
but there's a lot more menworking stores, and it's easier for her to go in,flash her boobs, wink-- make the guy feel thathe's special. so she'll come out with 10 timesmore than what i can come out with. kelly: listen, i'll go outsome little geary. he must be about eighteen. and i'll mug him right off. i will use my, what's theword, femininity.
tony sales: femininity. kelly: [laughs] how do you say it? kelly: femininity. i will use that. oh, please. at the end of theday, love, i've never, ever robbed anybody. if i could get 50 grand off somesilly bank, because i've
got a bit of paperwork,whatever, i'm happy to do that. i won't get out ofmy bed for 5,000. would i? tony sales: no, you wouldn't. you love money too much, man. kelly: (laughing) i wouldn'tget out of my bed for it. tony sales: you know, in thatgame sometimes people, when they get a bit nervous, theyturn to drink or drugs to just
sort of calm their nervesa little bit. i think sometimes, a lot of whathappens with these people is that they've earned so muchmoney in the past, and they've had such a good life,that things start to spiral out of control. before you know it, the partylifestyle is trying to happen every day. dave? dave: goddamn!
tony, come here. tony sales: hey, howyou doing, mate? you all right? yeah, mate, i'm all right. this is dave. dave courtney: i do apologizeabout him. i was right from the start. i blame the parent. i've known him a long time.
when i first met him,i had a fringe. this is one of the local heroesof our little block. right? he was always, and i mean thismost sincerely, a little bit smarter than your averagebear, boo-boo, right? he was a little bitabove his years. tony sales: thank you. dave courtney: no, idon't mean it nice. i looked at you as a threat.
i hated him. [inaudible] talking to him[inaudible] a fancy smile. come on, you mastermind. now, i don't have to bethe best fraudster. 'cause i know him. and he don't have to bethe best fighter, because he can ring me. each to his own. horses for courses, rightpeg in the right hole.
i'm a completelydifferent era. and the only way to be againstthe law, or criminal, in them days, you all had the samehaircut, you all had the flat nose, and you was a gangster,you understand what i mean? now, as the world has evolved,everyone's got a little bit more sharper. you couldn't rob a bank. it wouldn't be worth it. because everyone's payingwith a check.
and when i used to do it, someold woman used to give you 200 grand, and we'd runoff down the road. and if you was unlucky,a cop would chase you with a whistle. it was fucking mental. their criminal mindis so sharp. they'll crucifying andslaughtering these failsafe things that they're doingwithin hours. how could i get awaywith fraud?
look at me. stop it. criminals spend their moneyvery, very fast, because they do not understand theconcept of saving. and when you run out of money,you just then go out and nick some more. so you don't have todo the saving. you know what i mean? although you might not want tobe squanderous and slap-happy
with your money, youcan't help it. because it's easycome, easy go. and i hate to say that,but it is like that. very much so in tony's case,with the fraud thing. he never, ever believed thatthat was ever going to stop. otherwise he wouldn't havewasted the money he did on what he did. he must have thought thiswould go on forever. tony sales: [inaudible]
[making gun noises] dave courtney: come then. next! yeah, but i can'tmake a passport. i couldn't walk out of afucking [inaudible] in [inaudible]. unless i went like that, giveme the fucking, give me the fucking [inaudible]. know what i mean?
how's that for a fraud? boom. i'm rubbing my cockon her ankle. the illusion that anyone that'son the wrong side of the law is more exciting is anillusion, but it definitely is an aphrodisiac. these little creatures, here,that look like they walked off the front of a magazine wouldn'tbe sitting in my back garden, letting me molest herankle if i was a milkman.
they make me feel like i'm 25,about 6'8", and jamaican. step this way. look. after you. listen, god didn't giveyou a bum like that to walk behind me. fucking hell. i'm loving the way yourlegs bend, blondie. i'm liking that littlebend you do.
flora: i can tell the differencebetween gangsters and them sort of straight guys,just even down to the way they talk a lot of the time,and the words they use. dave courtney: oh, yourfucking legs! flora: i just have that side tome that finds it attractive or feels excited by them. it's not like i wereused to that. like when i was a teenager,when i was a kid, i was completely innocent.
i didn't think, oh, i wantto hang around gangsters. it was just something thathappened, really. i prefer the fraud side ofcrime, more than anything else, like violence and drugs. it is more clever. it's finding loopholesin today's society. because on both sides you've gotpeople that are making a lot of money. and if everyday people can usetheir brain enough to find a
way to look after their kidslovely, their girlfriend lovely, make a nice house,sometimes i do think, well, good on to you. you've put enough brain powerinto it, you've made things happen out of nothing. and it might be bad to say,but i guess i don't mind that too much. i know that i've had friendsthat have had their identity stolen and theirbanks cleared.
so they will probablyhate me for that. and i know that's really bad. but fraud is more commendable? dave courtney: it's our dutyas a criminal, as soon as you're doing something that therest of the world don't like, which is crime, you shouldat least do it with as much dignity, honor, respect,class, quality, professionalism, as possible. because what you're doingis scummy, so at
least do it with honor. that'll be a nice one. alright, thanks a lot,ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. the courtney show is over. tony sales: i didtell you that. you don't listen to me. i told you the other day. mindy: you didn't tell me.
tony sales: i'm notarguing with you. mindy: you were outlast saturday. tony sales: what areyou, my mum? mindy: no, i'm your fuckingwife that's sitting here looking after your children. that's what. tony sales: yeah, please,babe, can you do that for me, yeah? mindy?
i think she's gone now. tony sales: there'smy son, there. there's my little boy. this is where i live now. i've obviously moved on fromthe big houses and the big cars and stuff. now i'm trying to change mylife around and go legit. it's a lot harder thanwhen you're just taking stuff for free.
the thought of going and gettingit for financial gain doesn't bother me inthe slightest. but actually deceiving my wifeand my family is the one thing that got to me morethan anything. born on the same day as me. he's a good boy, though. he's not going to bea naughty one. aren't you? hey.
go on. i've started a companynow to prevent fraud. tony sales: i have. i've gone straight, kel. and now i've got my own companycalled rid fraud. tony sales: and it specializesin dealing with identity theft. and we're going to teachcompanies that we used to whack how to stop it.
for real. kelly: can i have a job? [electronic music playing]
end i served a prisonsentence. i've now set up a company calledrid fraud ltd., which combats the sort of frauds thati used to do to help this growing epidemic that'shappening throughout the uk. i could sell riceto the chinese. committing fraud was aseasy as that for me. the london fraud network ishuge, starting with young fraudsters-- male speaker: the policecouldn't give two flying pigs
about fraud. i've only had one encounter, andi managed to fraud that. tony sales: --to major organizedcriminal gangs stealing multi-millionpounds through elaborate frauds and scams. male speaker: people don'twant to appear silly. that's why they don'task questions. male speaker: all your name hasto do is just pop up on one of our computers,and it's done.
that's you. male speaker: moneymeans nothing. buy now, pay never. tony sales: i'd put thistelephone number down for a number for my nan to contactfrom the school. so if i decided to hop the wagor play truant, she could ring this number, and i would answerthe phone and say, "hello, halstow school, can ihelp you?" i was 11, 12 when i was doing that.
we'd go to every single one ofthose flats that were up in there and get peopleto sign our sponsorship form for a pound. they'd phone a number, andthey'd say, "hello, is the sponsorship form real?" andagain, we'd say, "yes, the sponsorship form's real. it's from halstow school." but when your belly's hungry,and you need to eat, and you want to buy yourself a nice pairof trainers that all the
other kids have got on,they're the only things you can do. and that's how youlearn the trade. young cee: this isn'treally the life. you're not making asmuch money as you possibly can, legally. as soon as you apply for a job,you have to wait forever. and while waiting, you're onthe streets, doing nothing. if you're not doing nothing,then you're doing the daily
grind, which is shottinga little weed. calley: you have to commit theseoffenses in order to eat your food for the day. obviously, there are risksinvolved in doing them things. i've been shot at, and someonetried to stab me. in my opinion, violenceain't the answer. i would prefer to dothe fraud scams. alias: i'm just going to tryand find a nice pair of trainers for myself.
yeah, these are bad, innit? you can get card detailsfrom hotels. you can get them from secretfraternities online. getting hold of it is easy. first got into it when i was ateenager in secondary school-- 16, i would say. ebay scam. and i got some wrestlingfigures. i mean, people would just ringme up and say, mate, can you
order me some indian,please, or a pizza? i'm fucking starving. i've done stuff for people, andthey haven't looked after me in return. with that being done, i knoweverything about them. i'll just go and take a creditcard out in their name. i've even done it to a girl. she deleted me off of facebookand i put her arse into debt for doing that.
[laughs] that's what happens when youdelete me off facebook. top websites to completelyannihilate if you're low on money, need clothes,want food. at number two is harrods. the security in harrods isactually a pile of poo. i remember me and my slovenianboys, we raped it every single day for a month. they just went back toslovenia with all
state of the art stuff. and out there, theywere getting top dollar for it, as well. at number one is tesco,it's my favorite. this is what we help theneighborhood out with. for the single mums that don'thave as much money as they would like to, they give us abell and we just order them shopping to their house. the security on tesco'sis rubbish.
but i'm happy that it's rubbish,because it's helped a lot of people. so i bought myself shitloadsof dvds because i want to start a little pirateindustry. give the little youngerssomething to do. this is just pleasurable. warhammers, i love this stuff. limited edition warhammers. wicked.
i mean, this is justthis week alone. welcome to the life of fraud. tony sales: london's full anddiverse of all different types of frauds going oncontinuously. i think the most bizarre one iever heard of and know about is the nigerian 419 scam of whatthey call black money. the black money scam justbasically cons people into believing that there'sa pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
mr. gold: my name is mr. gold,and i'm here to talk to you about what we call wash wash. and basically, what i want toshow you now is how we can turn $300 into maybe $300,000. sometimes we've targetedunderworld people because, number one, they're the onlypeople who will have a substantial amount of moneysitting down at home, unaccounted for. yes, we have taken moneyfrom the ira.
we're not intimidatedby them at all. maybe i'll say i'm the assistantto bin laden. i have exclusive accessto his hoard of money. the job now is to move the moneyfrom where it is to the west, where it can bedealt with properly. but then when i tell them that,unfortunately, the money has come defaced. but it's not an issue, becausethis is how security services normally move the money.
and there are chemicalsavailable in order to wash the money. the idea now is for him to buyenough chemical so that we can do his wash by theend of the week. we can never tell him whatthe secret chemical is. it's not really expensive, butwe will tell him it's very, very expensive. it's only available togovernments, and whatnot. magic.
so you give them this. so, there you go, mr. client. go down the road, go buyyourself mcdonald's. by the time they come back,the chest will be gone, everything will be gone,everything will be clean. do people actually believe it? yes they do. they believe it. to be honest with you, i couldnot be in the room because i
would laugh. i've got a nice house, yeah, andthe cars, the women, the whole shebang. and it's a lifestyle thathas been bought with this kind of business. cut. tony sales: key still works. let's have a look. this is just bank statements,a couple of wage slips,
couples of passports. absolutely everythingin there. mortgage offers. a lot of this stuff would havebeen given to people at a proper company todisperse of it. you know? and maybe the guy who drovethe van or works in the company, who don't get thewages that he should be getting for the job that he'sdoing, thinks, well, i can
have a little tickle, here. and he sells it to the wrongperson who then would try and get hold of someone like me. this is a mortgage applicationin here. we got a copy of someone'spassport. we got a copy of someone'sp60, so now we've got a national insurance number. we've got barclay's bankstatements with the account number, sort code, everythingelse on it.
this is how easy it is, yeah? you make a utility bill. you can make a nationalinsurance card, because you got the national insurancenumber. all these things are really easyto make once you've got the right equipment. so you go into the bank, withall the stuff that you've made up now, and you just draw themoney out over the counter. once you knew how to do allthis stuff, we was instant
millionaires. we could have whatever wewanted, whenever we wanted it. a4 pieces of paper are cashif you know how to make them into money. the final piece ofthe jigsaw is id. the best possible formof id you can get is a british passport. people die on boats and stufffor this passport. and they climb over mountains,and they go everywhere to try
and get this passportright here. with this id, people willgive you anything. they don't even question it. and they just look at it. they'll give you whatever youwant, there and then. because as far as they're concerned, it's a real passport. if you make it goodenough, no one's going to question nothing.
so that's the most importantpart, is the photo id. so that bit's done now. so now we just need to make therest of the utility bills and the bank statement. and that's it. we're going to make a completebill with numbers on the back. everything it's meant tohave, it's gonna have. so when people look at it, theyturn it over, it's going to have all the numbers there.
everything's in place. even the direct debit cardslip is perfect to how it should be. there is no differencewhatsoever. it's absolutely perfect. people would say it's hardwork, but it's not. it's an easy thing to do. whereas most people walk pastthe shop, and they don't see anything, we're walking pastthe shop and thinking, oh,
let's have a little lookin there and just see what we can do. simmer: she's green. [inaudible] tony sales: look howyoung that girl is. what, she's 20. what's she going to know? there's so much [inaudible] coming to play.
do you do finance? my wife said you do, yeah? female speaker: it takesabout 15, 20 minutes to do on the system. i just need some form ofidentification, preferably like a debit card. tony sales: yeah, now thesepeople are not trained in any type of financial backgroundat all. you can go to them and say, i'dlike to open a store card
today in your store, please. and they'll say,ok, thank you. could you fill thisform out, sir? the house of fraserstore card. do you do a house offraser store card? you do, yeah? and do i have to haveany id with me? female speaker: we doneed a form of id, like a credit card.
tony sales : all right,i've got that, yeah. yeah, that's fine. that's fine, yeah? all right. thank you very much! simmer: they want you to takeit more than they think you want to take it. so just let themsell it to you. tony sales : hello.
i was just making someinquiries, really. i see you do up to three years'interest-free credit. female speaker: yes. tony sales : i'm looking toget my wife a 10 year anniversary present. yeah, that looks all right. female speaker: that's anice-looking watch, isn't it? tony sales : yeah. female speaker: maritalstatus?
you're married, yeah? 10 years, was it? tony sales : 10 years, yeah. female speaker: sameas me, this year. tony sales : oh yeah? well you don't look old enoughto be married 10 years. female speaker: 10years, july. tony sales : wow. female speaker: do youhave any proof of
residence at all with you? driving license orutility bill? tony sales : i've gota utility bill. yeah. i've left one bit in the car. here you go. thanks. they haven't got a clue whatthey're looking at, what id they're looking at, howto check to see if the
id is real or not. they don't have a clue. and that person could issue youup to 5,000 pound credit on the spot, there and then. male speaker: right, you havesix autographs in total, sir. signature there. signature and dateson that one. and there's three copiesof it, basically. one for me, one for [inaudible],and one for us.
tony sales : ok, sir. i'll go and get the card. i've got to do a couple littlebits just down there, yeah. male speaker: we'll have thewatch ready, we'll have all this done, all thepaperwork sorted. tony sales : thank you, sir. thank you very much. see you later, bye bye. on one day, it could be thatthere might be 20 of us out.
and that girl does 20applications in one day. that poor girl is goingto get in trouble. simmer: before i met tony,i used to do robberies. i was robbing doorstepcollection people. i was getting in somuch trouble. prison, police stations,[inaudible]. it just got progressivelyworse. it was wearing a bit thin. i could see a long prisonsentence coming out of
something like that. i just met hott. and he just showed me adifferent way where i wasn't getting into trouble so much. he just brought me in likeit was just an old family sort of thing. it was just an easyway of life. i didn't worry about nothing. i didn't have to worryabout money.
nice clothes, whateveri wanted. growing up, i never used tohave nothing like that. when i stopped robbing andstarted doing the fraud, it was taking the face away fromthe crime, if you like. wasn't hurting nobodyindirectly. it's luck of the draw. because what you do is you'repicking people. you don't know the peopleyou're picking. you might have a million people,and all you're doing
is just picking the best namethat suits yourself. it's already happenedto my mother. she was the victim ofidentification fraud, as well. not saying that come from noneof us, because it never come from none of us. but she was. my family didn't want meto go the way i did. but you take your own pathin life, don't you? tony sales: like in afootball team, the
striker scores the goal. fraud works in exactly the sameway where at the end, sometimes you build everythingup, and you just need the last part of the jigsaw puzzleto put it together. 9 times out of 10, that'llbe someone like kelly. men are men. they will look at a gorgeousyoung girl, and they go weak at the knees. i can go in and corrupt thegirls behind the counter.
but there's a lot more menworking stores, and it's easier for her to go in,flash her boobs, wink-- make the guy feel thathe's special. so she'll come out with 10 timesmore than what i can come out with. kelly: listen, i'll go outsome little geary. he must be about eighteen. and i'll mug him right off. i will use my, what's theword, femininity.
tony sales: femininity. kelly: [laughs] how do you say it? kelly: femininity. i will use that. oh, please. at the end of theday, love, i've never, ever robbed anybody. if i could get 50 grand off somesilly bank, because i've
got a bit of paperwork,whatever, i'm happy to do that. i won't get out ofmy bed for 5,000. would i? tony sales: no, you wouldn't. you love money too much, man. kelly: (laughing) i wouldn'tget out of my bed for it. tony sales: you know, in thatgame sometimes people, when they get a bit nervous, theyturn to drink or drugs to just
sort of calm their nervesa little bit. i think sometimes, a lot of whathappens with these people is that they've earned so muchmoney in the past, and they've had such a good life,that things start to spiral out of control. before you know it, the partylifestyle is trying to happen every day. dave? dave: goddamn!
tony, come here. tony sales: hey, howyou doing, mate? you all right? yeah, mate, i'm all right. this is dave. dave courtney: i do apologizeabout him. i was right from the start. i blame the parent. i've known him a long time.
when i first met him,i had a fringe. this is one of the local heroesof our little block. right? he was always, and i mean thismost sincerely, a little bit smarter than your averagebear, boo-boo, right? he was a little bitabove his years. tony sales: thank you. dave courtney: no, idon't mean it nice. i looked at you as a threat.
i hated him. [inaudible] talking to him[inaudible] a fancy smile. come on, you mastermind. now, i don't have to bethe best fraudster. 'cause i know him. and he don't have to bethe best fighter, because he can ring me. each to his own. horses for courses, rightpeg in the right hole.
i'm a completelydifferent era. and the only way to be againstthe law, or criminal, in them days, you all had the samehaircut, you all had the flat nose, and you was a gangster,you understand what i mean? now, as the world has evolved,everyone's got a little bit more sharper. you couldn't rob a bank. it wouldn't be worth it. because everyone's payingwith a check.
and when i used to do it, someold woman used to give you 200 grand, and we'd runoff down the road. and if you was unlucky,a cop would chase you with a whistle. it was fucking mental. their criminal mindis so sharp. they'll crucifying andslaughtering these failsafe things that they're doingwithin hours. how could i get awaywith fraud?
look at me. stop it. criminals spend their moneyvery, very fast, because they do not understand theconcept of saving. and when you run out of money,you just then go out and nick some more. so you don't have todo the saving. you know what i mean? although you might not want tobe squanderous and slap-happy
with your money, youcan't help it. because it's easycome, easy go. and i hate to say that,but it is like that. very much so in tony's case,with the fraud thing. he never, ever believed thatthat was ever going to stop. otherwise he wouldn't havewasted the money he did on what he did. he must have thought thiswould go on forever. tony sales: [inaudible]
[making gun noises] dave courtney: come then. next! yeah, but i can'tmake a passport. i couldn't walk out of afucking [inaudible] in [inaudible]. unless i went like that, giveme the fucking, give me the fucking [inaudible]. know what i mean?
how's that for a fraud? boom. i'm rubbing my cockon her ankle. the illusion that anyone that'son the wrong side of the law is more exciting is anillusion, but it definitely is an aphrodisiac. these little creatures, here,that look like they walked off the front of a magazine wouldn'tbe sitting in my back garden, letting me molest herankle if i was a milkman.
they make me feel like i'm 25,about 6'8", and jamaican. step this way. look. after you. listen, god didn't giveyou a bum like that to walk behind me. fucking hell. i'm loving the way yourlegs bend, blondie. i'm liking that littlebend you do.
flora: i can tell the differencebetween gangsters and them sort of straight guys,just even down to the way they talk a lot of the time,and the words they use. dave courtney: oh, yourfucking legs! flora: i just have that side tome that finds it attractive or feels excited by them. it's not like i wereused to that. like when i was a teenager,when i was a kid, i was completely innocent.
i didn't think, oh, i wantto hang around gangsters. it was just something thathappened, really. i prefer the fraud side ofcrime, more than anything else, like violence and drugs. it is more clever. it's finding loopholesin today's society. because on both sides you've gotpeople that are making a lot of money. and if everyday people can usetheir brain enough to find a
way to look after their kidslovely, their girlfriend lovely, make a nice house,sometimes i do think, well, good on to you. you've put enough brain powerinto it, you've made things happen out of nothing. and it might be bad to say,but i guess i don't mind that too much. i know that i've had friendsthat have had their identity stolen and theirbanks cleared.
so they will probablyhate me for that. and i know that's really bad. but fraud is more commendable? dave courtney: it's our dutyas a criminal, as soon as you're doing something that therest of the world don't like, which is crime, you shouldat least do it with as much dignity, honor, respect,class, quality, professionalism, as possible. because what you're doingis scummy, so at
least do it with honor. that'll be a nice one. alright, thanks a lot,ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. the courtney show is over. tony sales: i didtell you that. you don't listen to me. i told you the other day. mindy: you didn't tell me.
tony sales: i'm notarguing with you. mindy: you were outlast saturday. tony sales: what areyou, my mum? mindy: no, i'm your fuckingwife that's sitting here looking after your children. that's what. tony sales: yeah, please,babe, can you do that for me, yeah? mindy?
i think she's gone now. tony sales: there'smy son, there. there's my little boy. this is where i live now. i've obviously moved on fromthe big houses and the big cars and stuff. now i'm trying to change mylife around and go legit. it's a lot harder thanwhen you're just taking stuff for free.
the thought of going and gettingit for financial gain doesn't bother me inthe slightest. but actually deceiving my wifeand my family is the one thing that got to me morethan anything. born on the same day as me. he's a good boy, though. he's not going to bea naughty one. aren't you? hey.
go on. i've started a companynow to prevent fraud. tony sales: i have. i've gone straight, kel. and now i've got my own companycalled rid fraud. tony sales: and it specializesin dealing with identity theft. and we're going to teachcompanies that we used to whack how to stop it.
for real. kelly: can i have a job? [electronic music playing]
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